1 Timothy 2:11-12 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
I have always been troubled by these verses from Paul. I just don’t believe that God intended, especially for all eternity, that women to be quiet and not have any authority over men. Why would he deprive us of so much that women have to offer in almost every area?? Yes, I have heard that the majority of today’s theologians don’t believe that these words actually came from Paul but instead were added by someone later trying to advance a particular agenda. Like all of these types of controversies it is impossible to discern the truth as the original documents to all of the Biblical text have long since disappeared.
I was certainly pleased to see a response to this verse below.
What’s with the women at Ephesus?
Just as I’ve never heard a sermon against Cretans, I’ve also never heard a sermon on 1 Timothy 2:8, in which Paul tells Timothy, “I want men everywhere to pray, lifting holy hands without anger or disputing” that included a universal dictum that all men everywhere must raise their hands whenever they pray. Nor have I heard a sermon on one of the most common instructions found in the epistles, to “greet one another with a holy kiss.” (1 Corinthians 16:20) Nor have I ever heard of a pastor being removed from the position in keeping with Titus 1:5-6 because one of his or her children had left the faith. (It’s an uncomfortable reality, but if complementarians were as consistent in their application of biblically-based pastoral qualifications as they claim to be, a few of their most prominent spokesmen would have had to resign from their pastoral positions when their children left the faith. They didn’t.)
I haven’t heard any sermons on all of those biblical instructions, but I’ve heard more than I can count on 1 Timothy 2:11, which says, “a woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”
As shown above this response came from Rachel Held Evans blog. This young lady is certainly one I don’t want to be quiet! She is now on my regular read list. Check out the full post by clicking on the label above. She has much more to say about this than is shown above.
I am fully aligned with her that we Christians, especially the fundamentalists among us, pick and choose which verses they decide to take literally. When we quit doing that and take the Bible as an inspired series of stories we just might quit continuously dividing ourselves. I think 39,000 different versions of Christ is enough …
Until the next time I bid you peace….
RedLetterLiving 
Cultural bias used by the powerful (men usually) to control. Dangerous. This is poisonous religion that has caused centuries of pain and suffering. Jesus’ words are truly our guide. He loved and cared for the powerless such as women and children. Great post! Now how do we get the word out to the fundamentalist’s?
Peppy, Poisonous I’m not so sure but detrimental or stifling I would agree. One of the major challenges of even trying to re-unite some of the 39,000 different congregations is that most, including the staunch fundamentalists, have simply quit listening. For the most part they are now haunched down in their churches looking out at this big bad world and waiting for the second coming. If they ever wandered out of their pews and into the real world they might just understand what “God’s kingdom come to earth” really means.
The Kingdom of God or Heaven is here. Right now, in each and everyone of us, everywhere. “I don’t want to” is the answer given to it. Therein is the reason for all error. Enough said.
Thanks for the comment Paul. I’m not sure what this has to do with this post? I’m not as sure about this as you seem to be but yes God’s kingdom is on earth to some degree but certainly not “as it is in heaven”. Not even close…..
I wonder if the words of being quiet had to do with women taking over and men disengaging. I have witnessed that a woman may guide her children to faith- but if the men are not engaged the faith dies within a generation or two.
Taking it a step further- there is a generation of women being raised who see little or no use for a man in their lives. They can gain children and money without him. Sometimes “we” need to be told to sit still and be quiet so we can see the relevance of each other in both our lives and our faith.
Maybe THAT is what passages like these are all about.
June, of course there is some truth in what you say. But do you also agree that women should not be men’s bosses and they should let their husband teach them what they need to know? This seems very much more like muslim practices.
I have seen studies that show that the purpose of the letter to addressed congregation was about a particular incident that occurred where some women were creating problems. Like many other places men (and I do mean men) decided to adopt this for everyone. Just another place where even well meaning men have subverted the original messages of much of scripture. We need to look at all these types of things with our “Jesus” glasses on. What he taught about this and all other areas is more important than what man later adopted….
So I always look to Jesus, his life and times, to point me in the right direction when reading scriptures such as these.
IAlmost every conservative OT based religion/ country starts off as men being in charge. Our own country still balks at women in charge. It is not just an Islamic practice.
Yes, Jane I agree that most countries and religions at least start with men in charge. If they are fortunate such as we are finally starting to be women eventually take leadership roles. But I am going to go into several examples of where women were leaders in the early church. But of course they were pretty much downplayed by the historic reports (usually from men).
I brought up muslims because the idea that women are to be quiet and subservient and only ask questions of their husbands when they get home reminds me very much of what is currently the norm in muslim countries. I did not intend to infer that it didn’t happen to one degree or another elsewhere. Thanks for setting me straight….
I lived in Saudi and my husband’s counterpart was in discussion with his wife even more than my husband and I were. I think mixing up what the government thinks (and the men who run it) and what happens in the everyday life of people is common. Happens all the time when people refer to our country as well…all liberals, all conservatives, all Green Peace…Breaking those boxes up is the first step to true peace. When we see every person as a person not a group. “People are people where ever you go”. ~Seuss
Thanks for being open to discussion about such things.
Janette, thanks for the enlightening comments. Yes, we do seem to conveniently want to put everyone in a box that is familiar to us. That seems to make our lives easier. But, you are right labels do not apply to everyone or every situation. I certainly know that the labels most attach to deaf people most certainly don’t apply to me 😉